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I built a grand concert steel string for a friend and he asked me to fix the 16th fret. The treble side will not stay in the ebony fingerboard. I have pounded, used epoxy, widened the tang with StewMac's tool, pounded again, tried CA glue, and pounded again. I have reviewed guitar repair books and I am at a loss what else to try. Any suggestions?

Mark, you obviously have a stubborn fret and probably a slot that is too worn to hold it. It could be that there isn't enough (or too much) curve in the fretwire as well.

You may have to pull the fret, fill the slot with tightly-compacted ebony dust, and harden it with thin CA glue. Then level the surface and slot with a fretsaw with a blade on the thin side of normal.

I may be way off track here. Hopefully, our good friend Frank Ford may come by and answer this more intelligently than I have. He's like the Oracle of Delphi. If anyone knows the answer, it's Frank.

_________________
"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

[QUOTE=Don Williams] He's like the Oracle of Delphi. If anyone knows the answer, it's Frank.
[/QUOTE]

long white dress and Moses sandals?

quite an image there!!!!!

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My soundclick xx luthier blog xx luthier soundclick

[quote=Smartie-pants]long white dress and Moses sandals?

quite an image there!!!!![/quote]

Hey.....now how do you know how the Oracle of Delphi was dressed? Were you there? Oh wait, she didn't really exist...or did she? Who knows? She might have only worn a Toga.
But of course I wasn't refering to gender, but to the wealth of wisdom and knowledge.

_________________
"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

Sounds offhand like the fret is "sprung" a bit in addition to being a bit loose
fitting.

Starting with a new piece of matching wire, try to curve it to match the
fingerboard radius as precisely as possible. Then tap it in place, VERY
slowly, using light blows at first. It might take 30-40 taps to get the fret in
place without bending it. If you bend it in the center by hitting it too hard,
you MUST throw it away and start over.

Once it's in place where it belongs, seated against the fingerboard, you can
flood in some thin CA glue to fill the slot. Be careful with the finish, of
course.

_________________
Cheers,

Frank Ford

FRETS.COM
HomeShopTech
FRETS.NET

Thanks for the great suggestions. I failed to mention this is a bound fingerboard. Something that seems to happen guite a bit is when I bend the fretwire first and then cut it to size and then nip the end tangs to install in a bound fingerboard, the fret tends to flatten out and sometimes have a backbow to it. Has anybody esperienced this or am I just not bending the fretwire enough in the first place (it has a 12 degree radius like my fingerboard)?

when bending wire you want to overbend it. i like the bottom of the tang to be clear of the board surface by about 1/32-1/16".

also your emphasis on pounding tends to make me think frank was on target when he mentioned sprung frets. that happens when you try to beat them into submission!!

the hammer should be used with light taps to persuade the fret to enter the slot. easing the mouth of the slot with a triangular file will help track the tang into the slot cleanly as well as making you popular with repair folk down the track who will eventually have to refret it as the fret should then come out with minimal chipping.

as frank mentions you will probably have to glue this one.

[QUOTE=luthier24] ... this is a bound fingerboard. Something that seems to happen guite a bit is when I bend the fretwire first and then cut it to size and then nip the end tangs to install in a bound fingerboard, the fret tends to flatten out and sometimes have a backbow to it. Has anybody esperienced this ...?[/QUOTE]

Yeah that happens. You just need to make sure the fret wire gets bent back to the right arc before hammering it in. Also hammer in the ends first and then the center. That will help the ends stay in place a bit. That is if your raised area has a tang under it. If your problem area is the tip (without the Tang) and it sounds like it may be, then different problem.

For that you just need to examine your method and see what is causing the fret end to raise. Could be too much arc before hammering in. It needs to have enough arc to hold it in place but not so much it has to bend to allow installation. I also tap my ends down just past the edge of the FB after the fret is in and before trimming.

Now, what is the Teeter method?

[QUOTE=RCoates]Now, what is the Teeter method?[/QUOTE]
Wide slot, fill with epoxy, press in fret (only need finger pressure) and clamp 'til the glue sets.

Ah now I see the need for future repair persons to be advised. I don't see why that wouldn't work if you had little other choice..

Thnx

whilst it is nice to be aware of any glue holding the fret in, any competent repair tech will use a soldering iron to heat the fret before trying to remove it, so the presence of any glue is readily revealed. it is not extremely pleasant to have a blast of epoxy or ca fumes in your nose, but usually no damage is done.

even if no heat is used, anyone who is not brain dead should relaize that a fret that won't budge with a gentle squeeze of the puller has been glued and take appropriate steps before he does damage.

[QUOTE=highdrawlicks] Carlton has shared the basics of the Teeter (Don Teeter being one of the original repair gurus) method, but it's essential to wax the fretboard (making sure any wax is removed from the fret slot(s) before epoxying the fret or frets in. Makes any squeeze out easier to remove. And, of course, avoid using any wax that contains silicone. [/QUOTE]

I don't use this method now, but if you do... you can sand the board until the slots are full of dust. Then wax, use low pressure compressed air to blow the slots out, and continue.

My 2 (sense)!

_________________
Paul Bordeaux
http://www.bordeauxinlay.com

[QUOTE=Hesh1956] Taking 30-40 blows to seat a single fret really shows the patience needed and the "touch" that Frank has. Now if I can get this image of him in a toga and sandles out of my mind....... [/QUOTE]


30-40 blows... that's not him. That's those little sprites/fairies he has enslaved. You don't think a mere mortal could actually do all that magical repair stuff Frank is known for do you?

...Toga bad, toga bad...

Try dropping a little Stew Mac thin crazy glue in the slot, tap the fret in, then press the ends down, spray some accelerator on it while holding down the fret end for 10 seconds.